Good overall (if not particularly surprising in the big ending), but the snippet of next season was fabulous!
Bill Capossere
Spoilers below:
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The episode was solid and the look forward great, but the final five minutes or so of volume one were sadly disappointing. Sylar’s defeat was far too abrupt and anti-climactic. And didn’t make much sense to me–he could stop bullets before they struck him from behind but he can’t stop Hiro running at him from 7 feet away? And I don’t quite understand Peter’s dilemma, though perhaps I missed some fine points. Hasn’t he absorbed his brother’s ability to fly? Why can’t he fly off himself? And why hasn’t he absorbed Hiro’s ability and thus be able to just teleport himself or go back in time? And if a tranquilizer worked on Ted in much more desperate straits back at HRG’s home, why wouldn’t it work on Peter here, or just having Jessica knock him unconscious? He’s not even at the point where things are bursting into flame and Claire is melting yet. It went downhill for me after Sylar’s declaration that Peter was the villain and he was the hero–which was the highlight of the show. Though a close second was the pointing to the real boogie man by Molly.
Tim Pratt
Good show, with cool stuff, marred by idiot plot issues in the final moments — yes, why didn’t Peter fly away by himself, or just let Claire shoot him in the head, since that would have stopped him from exploding, but wouldn’t have killed him, what with his miraculous healing ability. Nathan’s sacrifice only makes sense if he was so filled with self-loathing that he wanted to die, but even then, why would Peter allow his brother to pointlessly kill himself when there were other options?
But, hey, Hiro in feudal Japan! I’m looking forward to next season.
The ending makes sense if Peter can only use one ability at a time. This would explain both why he’s helpless to fly himself out of there and why Claire doesn’t want to shoot him, since she’d have to kill him to stop the auto-nuke from happening and Peter might not be able to come back if his healing power didn’t kick in before he died. But I don’t think they’ve ever made it clear whether or not he can do two things at once.
I also didn’t understand what made Hiro putting a sword into Syler different from any other attack he’s deflected. I’m willing to accept the anti-climactic, though, because while his death came as a relief, I think we’ve already moved on to bigger and badder things. Looks like something dragged him underground. And I am eager to know what. Also, I think it’s typical of Syler that for all his grandiosity and destructiveness, he’s really a nonentity and his death shouldn’t be given any more weight than it got.
I’m terribly disappointed that the whole point of saving the cheerleader was so her existence could inspire Nathan to care about saving the world. I’m looking forward to Claire figuring out that she really doesn’t need all this protecting.
But I loved the episode. Loved seeing all of them come together and help each other. Loved the two little kids meeting, loved Nikki integrating her strength, loved Richard Roundtree’s sappy speech to Peter about love, and really all of it. Can’t wait to find out more about the history next season!
I think Karen’s right on the one ability at a time thing. Otherwise, Peter (and Sylar) would be unstoppable eventually, which is no fun in the comic books/comic book TV.
I was really sad that — in addition to the questions raised by some of the sillier aspects of the ending — Nathan’s showing up to save the day didn’t have more emotional impact. I think they let him go too far down the path of badness and the coming out of that was so brief… it could have been more poignant.
But yeah, overall it was a fitting end and a really fine episode. I actually liked the stuff with Niki for once and loved Hiro being smart and saving Ando.
Y’all that think Sylar’s really dead are such optimists. I believe he’s signed on for next season. I’ll miss Pasdar though! (Nathan dying probably kills the chance for a Dixie Chick cameo.)
I am retroactively enjoying the conclusion more by believing the one power at a time thing.
I wish that had been made explicit, so that I could have enjoyed it at the time.
Pete
There are, indeed, plot loopholes, but I’m okay with that to an extent. As much as I like Heroes, it’s refusal to deal with all the implications of its own rules and mythology is pretty standard for network television. It’s why it will never be as good as Buffy, Angel, etc., shows that took the self-imposed constraints of plotting and character and turned them to an advantage. To my mind, all good sci-fi and fantasy does this, on television or the page.
But anyway, how’s this for a major loophole: the Haitian! The implications of his power are totally ignored in much of the plotting. I was sort of hoping he’d swoop in at the last minute and THAT would be why Hiro is able to kill Sylar- as any man without powers can just kill another.
(metaphysical question- does the haitian’s power by it’s very nature, preclude Peter’s absorption of it? It’s an unanswered question, consistent with the writing decisions, but never addressed. Furthermore- what would have happened if Sylar ate the haitian’s brain? I think it would have been neat to find out. Like maybe it overrides all his other powers. That’d have been neat.
Bob Devney
It’s a basic rule of fictive entertainment: a character is not dead unless you see him or her die. And as this very show taught us a few months back, even then you check the corpse’s neck for glass daggers.
So not only is Sylar possibly just pining for the fjords, so are Nathan and Peter.
Unless Gwenda knows something else about which actor is or isn’t signed for next season …
I don’t know about whether Pasdar’s signed on for next year or not (and I’ve looked!) or Jesse/Milo/Peter — but at least we know that Peter can survive the bomb, from the future episode.
Okay, wait. Both actors are back next season. Of course, with Candice the shapeshifter still around that doesn’t necessarily mean the character of Nathan will be back. But I hope so. I’m okay with whatever stretch they have to do for it, because I like that actor a ton.
Well, that… wasn’t so great, to be honest. Mainly because most people guessed the solution to the titular question right after Peter’s first vision, and the way Nathan’s evilness has been hammered in these last couple of episodes made it obvious that he’d change his mind (I also agree with Gwenda that such a swift turnaround from such complete darkness is unsatisfying).
The episode is also pretty wimpy about death. D.L. is still alive and kicking; I sincerely doubt Matt will die; Sylar is certainly not dead (much to my disappointment – I really think the character is played out and probably has been for some time); and now it turns out that not only will Peter return next season, which I had assumed, but Nathan as well! Nobody died!
I’m not terrifically shocked by the show’s failure to pay off its buildup with appropriate payoff – writing, on the micro level, has never been Heroes‘s strong suit (which is also why I’m able, for the most part, to live with the gigantic plot holes – I do, by the way, believe we’ve seen Peter use several abilities simultaneously in the past, when fighting Claude or rescuing him from Bennet). The show is best when you don’t look too closely at the details and just enjoy the overall effect, which is usually fantastic. I’ll definitely be back next season.
I want both the Petrellis back. I’m really sick of Sylar, though, and hope he got eaten by a C.H.U.D.
I think Heroes does a relatively good job at maintaining its story integrity. I’ve been peeking in on some early reruns, and they’ve been giving us a whole lot of plot all along that didn’t seem to make sense at the time, but which I can now see was internally consistent.
We’ve still got the usual problem of how all their superpowers could have been used more effectively to solve plot holes, but it’s part of the premise that these aren’t superheroes but just ordinary people who are only now becoming aware of how they fit into the larger picture. HRG (Noah!) is the only one with an overview, and he’s the only one who’s done any directing on how they can use their powers. From our glimpse of the future, it looks like Peter might step into that role at some point, if they become more of a team.
The best thing about the episode for me was Molly’s one-off about the thing that can see her when she looks at it.
Pete
Abigail is right about the writing: it’s all macro, though of course I’m of the opinion that macro really should be just a lot of micro in aggregate. Look at a show like, say, The Wire. Or any book of fiction that’s worth reading, for that matter.
But Heroes doesn’t have to be that good to be good, you know what I mean? The themes and symbols are satisfying enough that the writing can get by with marginal competence. Moral clarity in sci-fi is a beautiful thing, if only because it’s so much more difficult in reality. I’m not making an argument for escapism, exactly. I think sci-fi is more than that. It’s about teasing out the implications of a universe with different rules, some of which pertain to morality as much as other pertain to physics. Heroes does that well enough to be satisfying.
Ted
I found that pretty disappointing. Completely anticlimactic showdown between Peter and Sylar; pointless interventions by Hiro and Nathan; Sylar not dead. I felt the previous two episodes had a lot of filler in them, but I hoped the writers would make up for them with a big finale; this did not qualify.
Okay, how did I miss the reveal of Peter being in the future episode? Was this the feudal Japan part or something else?
I agree about Sylar being killed off too easily — they should have coordinated a plan of attack, where they intentionally overwhelmed him. Then, I would have bought him being distracted enough for Hiro to stab him. (I don’t think he’s dead, per se. I’m fairly certain he’s been absorbed / used / incorporated into something of the other Boogeyman the girl could see.)
Totally didn’t buy the Nathan thing, rushing in. Felt manipulated. And also didn’t buy that Peter couldn’t stop himself from exploding, that he had no control over it. The other guy (I’ve already forgotten his name) learned to control it, and Peter adapts fast to his new powers, so it would have made sense that he could have adapted quickly.
Otherwise, I did enjoy a lot of the ep.
I’ll respond when my hands stop glowing.
Good overall (if not particularly surprising in the big ending), but the snippet of next season was fabulous!
Spoilers below:
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The episode was solid and the look forward great, but the final five minutes or so of volume one were sadly disappointing. Sylar’s defeat was far too abrupt and anti-climactic. And didn’t make much sense to me–he could stop bullets before they struck him from behind but he can’t stop Hiro running at him from 7 feet away? And I don’t quite understand Peter’s dilemma, though perhaps I missed some fine points. Hasn’t he absorbed his brother’s ability to fly? Why can’t he fly off himself? And why hasn’t he absorbed Hiro’s ability and thus be able to just teleport himself or go back in time? And if a tranquilizer worked on Ted in much more desperate straits back at HRG’s home, why wouldn’t it work on Peter here, or just having Jessica knock him unconscious? He’s not even at the point where things are bursting into flame and Claire is melting yet. It went downhill for me after Sylar’s declaration that Peter was the villain and he was the hero–which was the highlight of the show. Though a close second was the pointing to the real boogie man by Molly.
Good show, with cool stuff, marred by idiot plot issues in the final moments — yes, why didn’t Peter fly away by himself, or just let Claire shoot him in the head, since that would have stopped him from exploding, but wouldn’t have killed him, what with his miraculous healing ability. Nathan’s sacrifice only makes sense if he was so filled with self-loathing that he wanted to die, but even then, why would Peter allow his brother to pointlessly kill himself when there were other options?
But, hey, Hiro in feudal Japan! I’m looking forward to next season.
The ending makes sense if Peter can only use one ability at a time. This would explain both why he’s helpless to fly himself out of there and why Claire doesn’t want to shoot him, since she’d have to kill him to stop the auto-nuke from happening and Peter might not be able to come back if his healing power didn’t kick in before he died. But I don’t think they’ve ever made it clear whether or not he can do two things at once.
I also didn’t understand what made Hiro putting a sword into Syler different from any other attack he’s deflected. I’m willing to accept the anti-climactic, though, because while his death came as a relief, I think we’ve already moved on to bigger and badder things. Looks like something dragged him underground. And I am eager to know what. Also, I think it’s typical of Syler that for all his grandiosity and destructiveness, he’s really a nonentity and his death shouldn’t be given any more weight than it got.
I’m terribly disappointed that the whole point of saving the cheerleader was so her existence could inspire Nathan to care about saving the world. I’m looking forward to Claire figuring out that she really doesn’t need all this protecting.
But I loved the episode. Loved seeing all of them come together and help each other. Loved the two little kids meeting, loved Nikki integrating her strength, loved Richard Roundtree’s sappy speech to Peter about love, and really all of it. Can’t wait to find out more about the history next season!
I think Karen’s right on the one ability at a time thing. Otherwise, Peter (and Sylar) would be unstoppable eventually, which is no fun in the comic books/comic book TV.
I was really sad that — in addition to the questions raised by some of the sillier aspects of the ending — Nathan’s showing up to save the day didn’t have more emotional impact. I think they let him go too far down the path of badness and the coming out of that was so brief… it could have been more poignant.
But yeah, overall it was a fitting end and a really fine episode. I actually liked the stuff with Niki for once and loved Hiro being smart and saving Ando.
Y’all that think Sylar’s really dead are such optimists. I believe he’s signed on for next season. I’ll miss Pasdar though! (Nathan dying probably kills the chance for a Dixie Chick cameo.)
I am retroactively enjoying the conclusion more by believing the one power at a time thing.
I wish that had been made explicit, so that I could have enjoyed it at the time.
There are, indeed, plot loopholes, but I’m okay with that to an extent. As much as I like Heroes, it’s refusal to deal with all the implications of its own rules and mythology is pretty standard for network television. It’s why it will never be as good as Buffy, Angel, etc., shows that took the self-imposed constraints of plotting and character and turned them to an advantage. To my mind, all good sci-fi and fantasy does this, on television or the page.
But anyway, how’s this for a major loophole: the Haitian! The implications of his power are totally ignored in much of the plotting. I was sort of hoping he’d swoop in at the last minute and THAT would be why Hiro is able to kill Sylar- as any man without powers can just kill another.
(metaphysical question- does the haitian’s power by it’s very nature, preclude Peter’s absorption of it? It’s an unanswered question, consistent with the writing decisions, but never addressed. Furthermore- what would have happened if Sylar ate the haitian’s brain? I think it would have been neat to find out. Like maybe it overrides all his other powers. That’d have been neat.
It’s a basic rule of fictive entertainment: a character is not dead unless you see him or her die. And as this very show taught us a few months back, even then you check the corpse’s neck for glass daggers.
So not only is Sylar possibly just pining for the fjords, so are Nathan and Peter.
Unless Gwenda knows something else about which actor is or isn’t signed for next season …
I don’t know about whether Pasdar’s signed on for next year or not (and I’ve looked!) or Jesse/Milo/Peter — but at least we know that Peter can survive the bomb, from the future episode.
Okay, wait. Both actors are back next season. Of course, with Candice the shapeshifter still around that doesn’t necessarily mean the character of Nathan will be back. But I hope so. I’m okay with whatever stretch they have to do for it, because I like that actor a ton.
Well, that… wasn’t so great, to be honest. Mainly because most people guessed the solution to the titular question right after Peter’s first vision, and the way Nathan’s evilness has been hammered in these last couple of episodes made it obvious that he’d change his mind (I also agree with Gwenda that such a swift turnaround from such complete darkness is unsatisfying).
The episode is also pretty wimpy about death. D.L. is still alive and kicking; I sincerely doubt Matt will die; Sylar is certainly not dead (much to my disappointment – I really think the character is played out and probably has been for some time); and now it turns out that not only will Peter return next season, which I had assumed, but Nathan as well! Nobody died!
I’m not terrifically shocked by the show’s failure to pay off its buildup with appropriate payoff – writing, on the micro level, has never been Heroes‘s strong suit (which is also why I’m able, for the most part, to live with the gigantic plot holes – I do, by the way, believe we’ve seen Peter use several abilities simultaneously in the past, when fighting Claude or rescuing him from Bennet). The show is best when you don’t look too closely at the details and just enjoy the overall effect, which is usually fantastic. I’ll definitely be back next season.
I want both the Petrellis back. I’m really sick of Sylar, though, and hope he got eaten by a C.H.U.D.
I think Heroes does a relatively good job at maintaining its story integrity. I’ve been peeking in on some early reruns, and they’ve been giving us a whole lot of plot all along that didn’t seem to make sense at the time, but which I can now see was internally consistent.
We’ve still got the usual problem of how all their superpowers could have been used more effectively to solve plot holes, but it’s part of the premise that these aren’t superheroes but just ordinary people who are only now becoming aware of how they fit into the larger picture. HRG (Noah!) is the only one with an overview, and he’s the only one who’s done any directing on how they can use their powers. From our glimpse of the future, it looks like Peter might step into that role at some point, if they become more of a team.
The best thing about the episode for me was Molly’s one-off about the thing that can see her when she looks at it.
Abigail is right about the writing: it’s all macro, though of course I’m of the opinion that macro really should be just a lot of micro in aggregate. Look at a show like, say, The Wire. Or any book of fiction that’s worth reading, for that matter.
But Heroes doesn’t have to be that good to be good, you know what I mean? The themes and symbols are satisfying enough that the writing can get by with marginal competence. Moral clarity in sci-fi is a beautiful thing, if only because it’s so much more difficult in reality. I’m not making an argument for escapism, exactly. I think sci-fi is more than that. It’s about teasing out the implications of a universe with different rules, some of which pertain to morality as much as other pertain to physics. Heroes does that well enough to be satisfying.
I found that pretty disappointing. Completely anticlimactic showdown between Peter and Sylar; pointless interventions by Hiro and Nathan; Sylar not dead. I felt the previous two episodes had a lot of filler in them, but I hoped the writers would make up for them with a big finale; this did not qualify.
Okay, how did I miss the reveal of Peter being in the future episode? Was this the feudal Japan part or something else?
I agree about Sylar being killed off too easily — they should have coordinated a plan of attack, where they intentionally overwhelmed him. Then, I would have bought him being distracted enough for Hiro to stab him. (I don’t think he’s dead, per se. I’m fairly certain he’s been absorbed / used / incorporated into something of the other Boogeyman the girl could see.)
Totally didn’t buy the Nathan thing, rushing in. Felt manipulated. And also didn’t buy that Peter couldn’t stop himself from exploding, that he had no control over it. The other guy (I’ve already forgotten his name) learned to control it, and Peter adapts fast to his new powers, so it would have made sense that he could have adapted quickly.
Otherwise, I did enjoy a lot of the ep.